I do all of my sequencing in Cakewalk.

My approach is to record each layer as a separate cloned track each on a different channel with each one mirroring one another note for note.

As far as controllers go, Cakewalk simply records the pedals and sliders and pitch wheels along with the note data and then plays it back thru multiple channels when I lay down cloned tracks as layers.

Dunno if that helps, but it pretty much works for me.

The Cakewalk INS file doesn't even really recognize Kurzweil Setups or Korg Combis anyway so pretty much everything I do in a sequencer is with separate programs.

Gary

Hi Gary,

Thank you for your reply. If I understand correctly, you record the controller data as part of the sequence within Cakewalk. I can see this would be very useful for automating a mix for recording or playback purposes and I would certainly adopt a similar approach in Reaper.

However, I would like to use some controllers in realtime. The SETUP MODE of the Kurzweil allows this, but I cannot see how to configure the same controllers when using the Song Mode. Ideally, I would like to use the onboard sequencer in SONG MODE for live work so I can easily replace or change sounds and use the PC3k sliders to control both the onboard sounds, or send MIDI control data to external MIDI devices. I can't help but feel I am missing something here. Configuring controllers in SETUP MODE is so flexible, but I cannot see how to translate it to the tracks in SONG MODE.

Kind regards,

Nick

Hi Nick,

I use internal sequencer and Setup mode. I have assigned the songs to corresponding setups as RIFF. Maybe you could try if this aproach suits you (use setup mode also for live work)?

br,
jukka

Like I said, personally I do all of my sequencing on the computer and never use built in sequencers if I can help it, but just as an FYI, what you are trying to accomplish here could only be accomplished in the Kurzweil's Song Mode Internal Sequencer anyway.

External sequencers simply will not recognize a combi or setup out of the box without a fair bit of coaxing.

Since different splits and layers all function on separate zones/channels you have to enable an external sequencer (computer or otherwise) to record on every active channel for the setup and likewise you can specify in the sequencer which MIDI controllers to record or ignore.

So if you wish to record and manipulate setup data inside the keyboard's built in sequencer, it should be no problem since the keyboard is capable of recognizing and interpreting the multiple channels and data on its own internal tracks.

How this would translate into an exported MIDI file or external sequencer file is an interesting question though. I wouldn't mind hearing from someone more knowledgeable on how that scenario would play itself out.

Gary

Gary and Jukka,

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

I think Jukka's suggestion of using RIFFS within SETUP MODE could be the solution I am looking for. To investigate this further, I watched a couple of the YouTube online tutorials by the Puppeteer (Godlike Productions) and this does indeed seem to be a great way to incorporate sequence data into a SETUP.

Godlike Productions - LiveTutorial #7 - Riffs Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWgJWdkn1Io

However, the way I would like to do this is less performance orientated (at least for playback) as I do not want to trigger individual tracks using keys or switches, I would just like to play back the full song from start to finish using the PLAY / STOP button as one would in SONG MODE.

Also I would be very interested to hear from any other members who use SETUP MODE & RIFFS in this way as I have a few additional questions.

1) Is it still possible to send some of the sequence tracks to external MIDI devices using this approach.
2) During playback of the song (riff), is it possible to switch zones so I can play the internal or external sound assigned to that zone (midi channel) from the PC3 keyboard.
3) Is it possible to send MTC data (master) from the PC3 to sync external MIDI devices to the PC3 sequencer

As always, I am very grateful for the comments and suggestions people offer.

BR,

Nick

Hi Nick,

Adding to what I had in the video tutorial, one thing to remember is that the Kurzweil has 16 MIDI channels total and that they are shared between program mode, setup mode, song mode etc, and they are always active and ready to receive MIDI data (as long as you don't turn them off).

What this means for you is that you could simply load up a MIDI file in song mode, start the song, go into a Setup (you'll need to make sure that the setup uses the same programs as you have assigned to the song for each of the zones) and simply use the controllers that you set up in the setup. You could set them to local for internal control only, or both, if you also want the slider data sent out of the MIDI port.

The sliders will just add to the data being played back from song mode, unless that particular controller has data within the sequence itself.

The Kurzweil sound engine is separate to it's MIDI playback and controllers.

The sequencer and the sliders (and the MIDI port for that matter) are simply different ways to feed MIDI data to the Kurzweil sound engine. All of them can be active at the same time. The sound engine simply takes the latest MIDI data it receives and adjusts the controllers accordingly.

Riffs are another way of accomplishing the same thing. Riffs are really just songs that are triggered from setup zones. Each Riff can have multiple MIDI channels and if you don't rechannelize the song, it will play other zones in the setup. I think I covered that in the video tutorial.

You can have the song and multiple riffs, and arpeggiators and keyboard and external MIDI data all playing the same channel on the PC3. It might not sound pretty, but it's possible.

I use this to do things like assigning riffs to simply provide controller data to multiple channels, while another riff, or song, or arpeggio provides the note data. It's a really quick way to make controller variations.

Hope this helps.

Hi Puppeteer,

Thank you for your message and apologies for the slow reply.

Your explaination about the PC3K sound engine being separate from the MIDI playback and controllers helped to clarify the architecture for me.

I don't know if you have seen it but I also had a similar thread on Cunka about whether the PC3K can actually play back more that 16 tracks simultaneously by using Riffs.

I have attached the link for those who are also registered on Cunka
http://www.cunka.com/forum/index.php?topic=3712.0

In this conversation with Brian, we discussed the idea of whether the PC3K can actually play back upto 32 tracks by assigning two riffs. I think I have now confirmed this through further testing. Here is how I set it up. The first riff is a song in which the MIDI destinations (MIDIDST) of all the tracks in that song are set to L (local), in a second song, the MIDI destinations of all the tracks in that song are set to M (MIDI). Within a SETUP, both of these songs can be triggered simultaneously (using a programmable switch for example), and therefore MIDI data from 32 tracks can be sent simultaneously. The MIDI data from the first riff (song) plays only the internal PC3K sounds, the second riff(song) plays only external MIDI devices.

Although it would not be common to require 32 tracks of playback, this does help with transferring songs from a DAW (in my case Reaper), where I have a template that uses 2 midiports (1 midiport [16 channels] for PC3K, 1 midiport [16 channels] for other external synths).

On a final note, I would like to thank you for your excellant tutorial videos. I have learnt so much from them and continue to refer to them.

Best wishes,

Nick

I saw the thread on the 32 tracks, and quite like your thinking. I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work.

I had missed it in your earlier post but using riffs just to send controller data is a great idea. It would give a lot of flexibility to use recorded automation data alongside the midi note data. I could see using programmable switches to turn on/off different riffs that send automation to different channels during a song great fun!

What I'd love to see is the ability to change the MIDI channel of a riff via a controller, at the loop point. (ie select the playback channel that controls the setup zone)

That way, you could load up 16 variations of a riff (note or controller) and use a controller to select what you will play back, on the fly.

For example instead of building a conventional song, use all 16 channels to build the elements of a song for a single patch. So Channel 1 might be Verse 1, Channel 2 might be Verse 2, Channel 3 might be Verse 3, Channel 4 could be Chorus, Channel 5 - chorus 2, Channel 6 break.

Do the same for the other zones/sounds, and use controllers to mix and match the various song elements.