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Genesis Seconds Out style organ sound  

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tonybanksfan
(@tonybanksfan)
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Wondering if any Genesis players have a good organ patch they would like to share? The famous T102 Hammond sound Tony mixed through the MXR 100 phase and Boss CE-1 chorus.

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Posted : 11/07/2013 9:17 pm
BillW
(@billw)
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It seems the Kurzweil should be able to do this. I'd be happy to share whatever I come up with as soon as I can find a PC361 for sale. I've been trying to add one to my Genesis tribute band rig for the past couple of months but they're quite scarce nowadays.

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Posted : 30/09/2013 7:25 am
tonybanksfan
(@tonybanksfan)
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It seems the Kurzweil should be able to do this. I'd be happy to share whatever I come up with as soon as I can find a PC361 for sale. I've been trying to add one to my Genesis tribute band rig for the past couple of months but they're quite scarce nowadays.

I think so too. I'm not good at programming at all as I'm new to all synthesizers, I don't even know how to midi, lol...
I have altered a few organ patches from KLA ( guy on the mastering vast forum) but I'm picky in replicating Genesis and don't think their quite right.
Wise choice though in going after the Kurz being in a Genesis tribute band, they can cover all the sounds, if you gather some public user patchs and can program or alter some of the factory sounds, a lot are useable right out of the box if your not as exacting as me.
If you get a PC3 series keyboard and can program it, let me know and maybe we can help each other nail down some of those great sounds.
BTW, the exact organ sound I'm after is easily heard in the intro of Follow you Follow me.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9zj11gf9Q ... 9zj11gf9Qk

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Posted : 01/10/2013 8:33 am
BillW
(@billw)
Viva la vida Lister

The organ sounds great in the video!

I haven't found a PC361 yet. I was going to have one shipped from Iowa but somebody else bought it first. I am looking at the PC3K6 instead. They're a lot more expensive, but I have plenty of uses for the flash ROM (like loading up prosoloist samples!). I'll be back if I get a keyboard...

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Posted : 03/10/2013 8:09 am
Malc
 Malc
(@malc_1588023930)
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BTW, the exact organ sound I'm after is easily heard in the intro of Follow you Follow me.

Here is a patch for the Follow You Follow Me organ.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=722

I used your link to the Follow video so the patch is trying to emulate only that version. For general use I'd be interested to know whether mine is ok. When I play it alongside the video it sounds right.

The recording in the video may have extra FX. From what I have read so far, the T102 didnt have a leslie - it was separate, so one question is whether Tony Banks ever bypassed it and just used the phaser and chorus alone, prior to it getting possible desk EQ and FX. I have used some leslie in my patch, and enough chorus to match the production level in the video.

If it doesn't match what you want from Seconds Out, I can have a go at changing it. I just need a link to a clip, ideally a moment where just the organ is playing without the guitar.

I have plenty of uses for the flash ROM (like loading up prosoloist samples!). I'll be back if I get a keyboard...

I have been building models of a couple of the ARP Prosoloist presets (eg Fuzz Guitar) in VAST, to avoid samples and let people use a VAST-only solution. I'm using various waves and filters mixed together to get the basic tone (a standard pulse is not it, there's more going on), and only then putting it through a conventional filter. I'm aiming quite high with this, but there are problems and its taking a lot of work. I'm still hopeful.

Malc

Famous synth sounds - a work in progress:
http://enjoythesirens.com

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Posted : 10/10/2013 9:20 am
BillW
(@billw)
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Good luck with your programming, I'd love to hear the results.

I actually bought a PC361 last week but it was malfunctioning when I got it home so I returned it. Still looking....

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Posted : 16/10/2013 10:10 am
tonybanksfan
(@tonybanksfan)
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[I used your link to the Follow video so the patch is trying to emulate only that version. For general use I'd be interested to know whether mine is ok. When I play it alongside the video it sounds right.

Malc

It's close, but missing something I think. Can't really pinpoint it, maybe some "lushness".
There's also like a high frequency draw bar tone? I tried to eliminate it without success.
I did add some aux cathedral chorus to my taste which may not help to match the original FYFM recording but I like it.

Here's another organ moment between 30-37 seconds at the start of this song, maybe its a better reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbhrIBMs ... ata_player

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Posted : 16/10/2013 9:05 pm
Malc
 Malc
(@malc_1588023930)
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Thanks for the feedback. So we are talking about 3 organ sounds: Seconds Out, Follow You... and the new clip. But I guess you are wanting one master sound out of this. Btw, I think your idea of a little aux cathedral reverb is a good move, I tried it and found that a slightly shorter time helped.

Here's another organ moment between 30-37 seconds at the start of this song, maybe its a better reference.

The sound in this clip (Its Gonna Get Better) is different form the Follow You Follow Me example, but maybe it highlights what you are after from Seconds Out. The predominant organ fx is that of a phaser. But it gets interesting; I consulted a Genesis fan-friend who says that the sound is not an organ but a Prophet 10 going through the MXR phaser... Which is a surprise. I checked it out - Wiki and this site:
http://genesislive.ning.com/group/equip ... opic:36382
There are definitely organ tones in there. I thought about simulating the P10 on the PC3. Actually making a P10 act like a 4 oscillator organ (since a P10 is two Prophet 5s stuck together). As it turns out that's exactly what Tony Banks did.

So my plan is to:
First make a PC3 P10 organ, to match the new clip, and make a phaser for it too.
Second, add the new phaser to the Follow You organ.

I read the CE1 chorus is described as being phaser-like, and the MXR phaser is described as being flanger-like. The phasers in the PC3 are ok but dont quite sound like the MXR, so I am trying the flangers, and there is something in there. I'll post back and upload when done.

As for the 'high frequency', I matched the highest organ tone in the Follow You video, which to my ears is the 2' drawbar. But if something is wrong for you, especially for playing Seconds Out stuff, try moving up the drawbar sliders one at a time, to reduce the volume of each (the last 3 sliders should be fully up/off). If that doesnt do it, then move sliders 4' 2 2/3' and 2' up at the same time. I found that setting these to the values: 6 5 5 reduced the highs and still sounded ok. The leakage parameter can produce high tones but it is off already. Hope this helps.

Malc

Famous synth sounds - a work in progress:
http://enjoythesirens.com

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Posted : 17/10/2013 5:27 pm
tonybanksfan
(@tonybanksfan)
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Hi Malc,
Tony's organ on a lot of the live stuff was similar,always had the distinctive phase/chorus mix, except for minor drawbar differences on some tracks. Hardly ever any keyclick or percussiveness. He had that trademark super smooth,pure, almost legato sound that worked so well in their music as an accompaniment to his Pro-soloist solos. Your patch seems to be closer to his older setups on albums like Tresspass and Nursery Crime. I like it, but later live stuff got closer to that silky smooth sound like on FYFM. I thought his Prophet 10 mxr/chorus sound was pretty close to that, maybe everyone hears things a little bit differently.
Anyway, good work on those, and look forward to hearing what you come up with next, wish I could figure this Kurz out, guess it takes a while.

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Posted : 21/10/2013 9:47 am
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