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Give me a good reason to persevere with Kurzweil

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JB107048
(@jb107048)
Posts: 34
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Okay,

This will probably ignite some debate, perhaps a firey response from a few - but it's not intended as a dissuasive argument.

As the topic suggests. Give me a GOOD reason to persevere with a Kurzweil product.

I've had this PC3x for 6 years now. it's had about 10 hours total playing time. It would have had thousands more if the damn thing worked though. however, that is an entirely separate discussion (see here: viewtopic.php?f=37&p=5372#p5372 )

The Real question is:

Would / Should I buy another unit? If yes, then What? Understand that I'm not opposed to other brands - I've had many different brands in the last 25 years. from my first Yamaha DX7 to ensoniq, technics, Korg, roland and even.... casio. I've had multiple models from some of those brands. Never owned a nord. didn't like the keyweight.
My PC3x was the first Kurzweil I could afford to purchase, so it wasn't going to be a lower-spec model. I wanted one with all the fruit.

If I have to rplace the main PCB on my PC3x and cannot get a K8 board to replace the current one, then I have to look seriously at other brands offerings, as the price of a new keyboard is right up there.

So, all you serious performers / programmers out there... Give me a list of your best current models. Doesn't have to be a Kurzweil - but if it is, give me your reasons for purchasing that unit over it's contemporary models.

I'm sure all of you are aware of the functionalities of the PC3x as a performance controller, so this is what I am looking for as a base. Logically the K8 is the replacement unit for my 3x, but I am not sure about the A series or the forte. Funcspec is one thing, versatility another, usability another again.

criteria for comparison / purchase are as follows:

ease of use
features / comparative / better than existing PC3x
setup complexity (software accompanying keyboard)

Must be Mac OSX. or at least a unix variant. No windoze sh*t here thanks.

Price - has to be comparable or even competitive. I'm not looking to purchase a Moog modular or an antique Fairlight CMI 3 on my budget.

suggestions please!

PC3x, PC3K8/K64+GD

 
Posted : 01/04/2016 5:38 pm
aneira
(@aneira)
Posts: 9
Active Member
 

Hello Im a PC3K new user, just 2 weeks. I still have a Roland Fantom X6 and a Hammond XK3C.
As a little info about m,e Im 46, father and lack of time to learn.
Is really tough to think about to sell my Fantom because Ive been trying to learn how to set the sounds on the PC3K just the basics, and its hard. But there are a lot of support on the web like this forum.
Im really motivated because the sounds of this machine are really awesome.

Every machine has is own operative system and I think is quite similar to learn to read again.

I had a Korg Kronos with touch screen I think is the most easy to use I´ve had, but only liked the pad and synths sounds.

Good luck

 
Posted : 04/04/2016 5:55 pm
christianjwagner
(@christianjwagner)
Posts: 15
Active Member
 

Hi there,

I guess no one blames you here if you question your gear - I am convinced this forum is not full of radical Kurzweil fanboys ;-) but rather professionals which whom you can have a fact-based discussion.

I am also a new Kurzweil PC3K7 user (since January) and to me it's indeed a love-and-hate relationship. On the one hand it's an awesome machine, classy sounding with super programability and the best keys I've ever used (hybrid synth-piano action), and especially the latter being the reason to keep the machine. I love the possibility to use my own (or third party) samples, so the "K" makes total sense for me. On the other hand it's quite a pain in the *ss and I've literally spent weeks learning how to program the machine. I kinda get the feeling it's the 80s again and Kurzweil overslept the last decade(s). Everyone is hyping the Kurzweil sound, and while in some areas for me it's really great (Piano , organ, and natural strings & orchestra), in others it's really a hit-and-miss (Clavinets -> Horrible, Synth Strings -> where are they? Guitars -> not so good, even with Kore64, Rhodes -> not so convinced).

If you're looking elsewhere, my only alternative would be the Yamaha Motifs. I was a Motif ES7 user for about 8 years, and somehow regret having sold the keyboard some years ago. It's a little like the first love of your life that you let go. To me one of the most intuitive and robust machines ever built, with excellent sound quality, and NEVER CRASHED ONCE in eight years. Chapeau Yamaha. Of course the newer XS and XF are a step up in terms of sound and functionality, but also pricier (and I hate their booting time & display lag - really annoying!). I'd even try to get a (now cheap) ES again.

I don't know if the Motifs (by the way editable on the Mac, and with a Firewire Interface quite usable as an Audio-Midi-Interface) would suit your needs as a "controller keyboard", but if I decided one day to dump the complicated Kurzweil stuff, I'd definitely go back to Yamaha. Korg -> Sounds to "dancy" and synthetic to me (although they say the Kronos is an awesome machine), never really liked it / Roland -> horrible "plastic sound", for me a no-go. (IMHO).

PS: Now that I've written my post I realize that in your title you say we should give you a reason to stay with Kurzweil, but then you ask us which alternatives we'd prefer. Not so consistent ... ;-)

Would be interested to hear what others think...

 
Posted : 05/04/2016 8:59 am
Mac06
(@mac06)
Posts: 31
Eminent Member
 

I switched from PC3K8 to the Forte last year and I can be said to be very satisfied.
The Forte recently get a massive OS update that provided full VAST/FX editing, step sequencer, arpeggiators, string resonance and other goodies. It's not a perfect product (UI still have some quirks imho and there are a few bugs) but it's the closest thing to an ideal PC4/K3000 or whatever you wanna call it.
Programs based on the new samples set (pianos, el-pianos, clavs, harps,..) are great, kb3 mode is improved, it has 16-zones multi with the same flexibility and midi controls of the pc3, 32 fx units vs 16 (that means you can have much more complex fx-chains or full fx on all the 16 midi channels, if properly managed) and it has 100% pc3 file compatibility. Only drawback: no sequencer and no user sample memory (although I'm confident they'll enable user sample loading in the future). Be sure to check it out.

Forte | K2000

 
Posted : 05/04/2016 11:38 am
JB107048
(@jb107048)
Posts: 34
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

I have to admit, the Australian Kurz market (resellers) do themselves no favours.

I'm no fanboi of anything and work in the electronics industry (within IT) and understand the pain of end-users and programmers alike. The middle ground is always quicksand, and knee-jerk reaction to fixing issues often gets you deeper in the mud, so to speak.

The main issue I have a hard time trying to justify to myself is quality control. Understand that the Kurz here in oz is a massively expensive instrument. But the quality of the internal boards is really 3rd rate made in PRC shite. All you have to do is look at the untouched internals of my PC3x to see that manufacturing was very much oriented towards cost and not quality. Kurzweil brand suffers pain because of this.

But - that wouldn't stop me from buying another -IF- (and only if) the support infrastructure here changed back to it's former distributor.

The current distributor still have not responded to my email regarding the pc3x, so I have to be very careful about making a decision - especially if you are aware that you may have to exercise a degree of submission towards the fact that you will inevitably have to ring for warranty support.

Forte looks to be an interesting unit. No doubt. But no sequencer memory? no user sample memory? that's a big thumbs down. It's actually the reason I am asking the question in the first place.

MOTIF - yeah, but nah. Sorry. I know and understand your love for the Yamaha product. They are truly a masterclass in bulletproof reliability and usability. and Firewire 800 is still very relevant to me. I have TB equipped mbp's but my main lugaround is still my 3.06ghz 17" mbp albeit souped up with max ram and SSD's. The new mbp is still 'too good' for heavy-duty abuse just yet. ;)

What do I really want?
hehe the impossible - I want what we all want... Perfect reliability, unmatched sound editing, sequencing and sampling in one unit that doesn't weigh a tonne!

I want a hybrid Kurzweil. an Ipad compatible programming interface with bluetooth connectivity to my keyboard, external high speed HDD (SSD) support and a BUG FREE OS.

with a mil-spec manufactured main PCB.

Too much to ask? not when they cost so bloody much here! While you guys are paying $3-3.5K for yours, we're paying Double that. It's not financially viable for anyone but the most dedicated Kurzphile.

I was drawn to Kurzweil after using one of my mates K2600's, and his PC3. I'd just ditched my roland, and bought the 3x and was in heaven until I had my life 'temporarily' relocated overseas due to work.

I am sure I'd be less cynical if I didn't suffer the 'anomaly' factor, but you cannot dismiss prior direct experiences from a future decision.

I'm sure the forte is okay - but I'd need some time with one. and I'd need a fair bit of reseller love to get over the past issues.

Now, having ranted for long enough, I have more questions.

Is anyone out there currently using something else as a performance controller and using the Kurz as backup / synth , or are we all believing in the Kurzweil mantra of superiority??

I would like to hear more stories of other peoples experiences with any of their keyboards - past or present. Because we don't always purchase new instruments - we often purchase somethign because of a particular sound that we like, and I am no different (although I prefer to purchase just the sound and not always the huge box it's delivered in)

please keep the responses coming. Again I stress, this is not a dissuasive argument. I would like balanced opinions - not just the everything is awesome or everything sucks comments. It's for information gathering, not for arguing over.

thanks again

PC3x, PC3K8/K64+GD

 
Posted : 07/04/2016 4:58 pm
The Puppeteer
(@the-puppeteer)
Posts: 56
Trusted Member
 

On the Australian Distributor, I've found them to be much more responsive than the old distributor. You need to talk to service directly and not to the sales front end, and you need to keep on at them, but things do move forward. I could get absolutely nothing out of the old distributor.

I agree they ain't ideal though. They are essentially drum and guitar distributors, and do next to nothing to promote Kurzweil here in Australia.

The Puppeteer
Godlike Productions
Mastering VAST Forum

 
Posted : 07/04/2016 7:25 pm
Charlievv
(@charlievv)
Posts: 14
Active Member
 

I have the PC3K8 and a Korg Kronos 88 key updated to the latest OS and a Muse Research Receptor Promax 2. I have been using Kurzweil products since.... too long to remember. Overall, I find Kurzweil to be excellent at the orchestrals, pianos, pads. However, of late I have been putting more time into the Kronos and find that it excels in many areas. I was considering a Forte, but the lack of the sequencer stopped me. I had the K2600, PC2r, PC2 76 note, PC88, and PC3 when it first came out. The Kurzweil keyboards and modules to me have always been very very reliable and well made IMHO. I think I will always have at least one Kurzweil on hand if only for the reliability factor and fast boot up time. Can the interface be improved? YES for sure. Should they engage a Touch Screen? YES they should. It seems to me, and I am in no way a professional programmer by any means, but its appears to me that Kurzweil does always have that Old Tech feel and resists coming up to todays standards with interface management. Just my opinion. Long Story short.... I still like the KZ boards very much but I do enjoy having other Manufacturers boards at the same time. If I had to pick one board only today, it would be the Kronos. It offers so much sound, updating, flexibility, and options with regard to interfacing other equipment thru it etc.... I would have to say, One board only....... I would have to keep the Kronos. But..... I dont think I will ever have one board only, so I repeat, I will always keep one Kurzweil. At this point in time.. for me anyway, Kurzweil is like another member of the family and we never turn our backs on family.

 
Posted : 08/04/2016 4:14 am
ioannes
(@ioannes)
Posts: 45
Trusted Member
 

Hello, I have PC3K6 (and PC2X too) and I am very happy.
Pianos are good, organs are good, orchestral are FANTASTIC ! (guitars are bad)
In the past I had different types of keyboard and brands ... In my opinion Kurz has the best sound.
Maybe Korg Kronos is better but.. in Italy Kronos price is twice PC3K !
Last info I heard in the shop I usually visit is that latest Kurz models have quality issues; I am not a able to say if it is true or not but the shop stopped to show Kurz keyboards.

Kurzweil PC3K6 Kurzweil PC2X Kawai MP5 Korg M50 ("B" team: GEM S2; Yamaha CP-30 - Ex: Yamaha PSR8000, Korg DS8, Korg DW6000, Roland D50, Roland Jupiter-4) - http://jcsbinasco.wordpress.com/la-band/

 
Posted : 09/04/2016 6:29 am
JB107048
(@jb107048)
Posts: 34
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

I wonder if there actually is a PC4 coming out.

They need a catchy marketing name for it.... like a PC4 SCX or something. Sampling Controller X (can think of lots of words for X, but X is always the great mystery of Kurzweil :D )

I'd buy something that sounded like Sex... :lol: :lol: :lol:

PC3x, PC3K8/K64+GD

 
Posted : 09/04/2016 5:04 pm
rockinredeye
(@rockinredeye)
Posts: 8
Active Member
 

Hello JB from Louisiana, USA. I have had my PC3-76 for about 6 years and like its sounds and functionality so much that I would hate to see you miss that same enjoyment. I needed keyboard contacts a couple of years ago and Kurzweil was very helpful, but of course would not send anything directly to me, the parts had to come from a retailer, not a distributor. You have persevered longer that I could have, but I don't have your electronics knowledge and maybe not your heart. Keep going and good luck. I will play my board until it can't be fixed. Does that make me a fanboy? I'm too old for that moniker.

And I think the PC4 is already named Forte.

 
Posted : 11/04/2016 12:44 pm
voodoo
(@voodoo)
Posts: 79
Estimable Member
 

It depends what you want in a new board, if it is piano, elec piano , hammond etc - then go for a Hammond SK1 or Nord 5d or the Roland VR09 if on a budget

If you want more synth sounds - go for the Korg Krome

For me the Kurzweil PC3 LE series is the best of all - orchestra / brass , piano, rhodes and hammond are great for my needs.

If I had to choose again - I may go for the Hammond - and then buy a separate module for the brass / synth sounds.

eCommerce software that lives in the cloud and can be used on multiple websites at the same time (FaceBook #1 ecommerce app) , physical products and digital / sound / audio / downloads - and it's FREE http://www.ecwids.co.uk

 
Posted : 13/05/2016 1:24 pm
lizard king
(@lizard-king)
Posts: 59
Trusted Member
 

I dunno. I've had my PC3X since they first came out and have had no hardware issues other than a fuse I blew. I have a pc361 to haul back and forth to practice. Also no issues.

I picked up a Hammond XK1 for organs and a Moog (whatever that little analog box is called) for analog synth (rarely used) and I'm all set.

I've played just about everything over the years except a Cronus. I guess I'm just used to the Kurzweil OS.

I do classic rock and contemporary Christian so if the patches aren't 100% accurate no one knows...LOL.

I guess I'm surprised at the issues people seem to be having with hardware as I've never experienced it. But to show you how out of it I have become (since they closed down sonic matter) I don't even know what a forte is...LOL...gonna have to take a day trip over to Sweetwater.

 
Posted : 16/05/2016 12:40 pm
JB107048
(@jb107048)
Posts: 34
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks everyone for the input - After an unfortunate hiatus working overseas again, I return a tired, broken man.

and Broke. Because today I dropped the motherload on a PC3K8 with the german D and KORE64 roms & a new flight case.

It's on my stand, I put the pc3x into the flight case and now to ship it off to KZ USA (the logic is board at least) for some remanufacturing.

I could have purchased a forte. I wanted the sequencer, and 16gb of flash wasn't enough of a carrot to dangle, when The instrument was still $600 more than what I paid for the k8 with everything.

Happy?

Understatement. I dumped a wad of cash on this, so let's hope there aren't any warranty issues. Fingers crossed.

At the end of the day, it was pretty damn hard to convince me that a Korg was a better instrument. Not knocking the Korg, but after a back to back the PC3K8 just smoked it.

PC3x, PC3K8/K64+GD

 
Posted : 07/10/2016 3:29 am
Charlievv
(@charlievv)
Posts: 14
Active Member
 

Hey, sorry to hear of all your problems with the PC3x. I have say, I have had Kurzweils since the late 80s and never had one single hardware issue. The boards are exceptionally well made, but..... crap happens from time to time. Sorry for you with this, however..... I have both the Kronos and the PC3K8 and I will state that the playability on the PC3K is much better. The action is much smoother and responsive. I use the PC3K as my main board and use the Kronos for certain other realities. The Kronos offers a lot but especially of late, I am always going back to the PC3K.. I also agree with your decision to not go for the Forte. I use the Riff feature constantly and to give that up along with the sequencer would be a mistake for me. I do think you will end up very happy with your decision. Remember this also, I don't know your age, I am 58, but the learning curve on the Kronos is very daunting in many ways.

I hope Kurzweil sees that many of the players of their products would like to maintain the Riff Feature and the sequencer for future products or if they can implement these features into the existing Forte would be just as good.

Just my two cents...

 
Posted : 08/10/2016 6:57 am
ahutnick
(@ahutnick)
Posts: 21
Eminent Member
 

FWIW in over a year of owning my Forte there have been more features added to it than any keyboard I have ever owned[ And I have owned a lot of keyboards! :D ] I too hope for a sequencer someday in the Forte but I do realize the difficulty in getting that onboard but irregardless big thanks again to Fran and R+D for all the great updates to the Forte as well as Jean at Kurzweil support!

 
Posted : 10/10/2016 8:14 pm
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