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Using the Pc3le to change programs in second synth

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tomas
(@tomas)
Posts: 11
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Hello,

My question is about how to use my Pc3le as a controller. I understand the basic basics of MIDI, but I must admit that I am rather inexperienced in this field :oops: . My setup is a Kurzweil PC3le and a Roland Juno Gi.
I want to use the Kurz as a controller, so that when using both keyboards in a song with my band, I can only dial in the setup on the Kurz and the Roland will automatically change to the correct program (or «Liveset» ...equals «Setup» in the Kurz).

I have tried to find an answer on how to make this happen in the Owner’s Manual, but can’t seem to find this explained.

Can anyone help?

Tomas

 
Posted : 21/07/2018 1:45 pm
delaware dave
(@delaware-dave)
Posts: 158
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First, ensure the LE is set to send program changes via midi. See page 9-16 in the manual in the master mode section (progchange). This must be set to "on".

Next go to the manual page 7-6; set the destination to "Midi"; set the channel to something other than channel 1, which I'm assuming is the local channel the LE is set to (use an obscure number like channel 6). Set the midibank to either 0 or 1 ( cant remember which one); set the midiprogram to the program number you are trying to call up in the receiving unit. If you re trying to call up program #15, set it to 15. Save the preset. On the receiving unit set that keyboard to receive midi on channel 6 (the obscure channel I mentioned above). Ensure the Midi cable is midi out on the LE and Midi In on the receiving keyboard. Call up the preset on the LE, it should call up the program on the receiving unit. If nothing happens then the midi bank number could be wrong or the midi program # could be wrong. It's also possible that it calls up program 14 or 16 (i.e. it could be one off), if it is adjust the midiprogram # by one on the LE side, then resave and retry.
Also ensure that on the LE that the ENTRYPROGCHG function is set to "on". If it's off it wont send the changes. It's on the same page as the midibank and midiprog functions. It all can be seen here:

http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/pc3/setup_mode/323/

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie122; MS Low Pro/Pro 3T; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; 67 Howard Combo Organ; https://dyinbreedband.wixsite.com/dyinbreedband/home

 
Posted : 22/07/2018 6:25 am
tomas
(@tomas)
Posts: 11
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Thanks a lot delaware dave! I appreciate you taking time to help out:)

Unfortunately, after hours of exploring it still doesn’t work.

I have done the following steps:
1) ensured MIDI cable goes out from kurz and in to the Juno
2) in Master mode, ProgChange is «On» (Destination is set to «USBMIDI+MIDI+LOCAL» and Channel is set to «1»)
3) in the Juno I did the following in the System Menu (Midi/Sync page): * = default setting
- Local Switch «on»*
- Device ID «17» (goes from 17-32)*
- Remote keyboard switch «off»*
- Main Channel «6»
- Sub channel «1»*
- Midi receive page: everything is set to «ON» by default (program change, bank select, exclusive, gm system, gm2 system, and gs reset)
4) in Setup mode on the kurz I chose a setup with one Zone.
5) on CH/PROG page: Destination set to MIDI, Channel set to 6 (like you suggested), midi bank set to «0». BankMode is «Ctl 0/32» and EntryPrgChg is «on».
6) since I wanted to call up «User Live Set» number 034 in the Juno, i chose Midi Prog 34.
7) saved the setup.
8) called up the setup on kurz, but no rection on the Juno. The sound coming out of the Juno is an el-bass sound which sounds like coming from the GM_sound bank. In other words, the bellpad-patch (#034) was not called up.
9) tried changing MidiProg numbers. This changes sounds from Juno. Again simple sounds from GM sound set, i think. It doesn’t matter which MidiBank I choose.

anything I have done wrong or misunderstood? Any further suggestions?

 
Posted : 23/07/2018 6:36 am
delaware dave
(@delaware-dave)
Posts: 158
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Sounds as though it is working but is calling up the GM patches rather than the user patches. And the fact that you said that you changed the midi program number on the kurz and it changed the sound on the Juno, so it is working. It sounds like it is the midi bank number. Midi bank 0 or 1 (or even more) could be the GM midi bank numbers. Experiment with trying different midi bank numbers until you get to the user bank. Each midi bank represents 127 programs. There is no standard for midi implementation so you will have to experiment here. Also, check the midi implementation chart in the back of the juno manual, it might give you a clue. But it sounds like the kurz is successfully making a program change so the setup is correct, it's the midibank and bank mode that might need adjusting. Also, ping roland directly or a post to a roland user group to understand what the midibank and/or bank mode need to be set to. Also, read the midi implementation chart it might clue you.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie122; MS Low Pro/Pro 3T; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; 67 Howard Combo Organ; https://dyinbreedband.wixsite.com/dyinbreedband/home

 
Posted : 23/07/2018 7:09 am
tomas
(@tomas)
Posts: 11
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Topic starter
 

Thanks again!

I found a flaw in my step by step explanation :? (sorry about that). In step 5, Channel should be set to «1» for the remainder of the explanation to be true. If I, like you suggested, set Channel to «6» I can play whatever Live Set that is dialed in on the Juno at the moment. However, the Juno is unaffected when I change MidiBank and MidiProg on the kurz (All the way from 0/0 to 127/127) - it’s just the same sound playing on the Juno.

Also, I tried (in the first scenario where I by mistake had set the channel to 1) moving through MidiBank/MidiProg to get past the GM soundset, but the same 127 sounds repeated on all MidiBanks...

Anyways, I will check with Roland (user group) about the settings, and also read the midi impl chart.

Tomas

 
Posted : 23/07/2018 9:02 am
delaware dave
(@delaware-dave)
Posts: 158
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So then based on your latest report the Kurz is either not sending a program change OR the Juno is not setup properly to receive the program change, so the kurz could be sending it but the juno is not setup properly to receive it and make the change. I'd start checking on the Juno side. The Kurz setup that you have is similar to mine for dialing up my gemini module and those settings make program changes on the gemini so I believe something on the Juno side is not fully setup correctly to accept the change. You did change the Juno to receive midi on channel 6, correct?

I just read the midi implementation chartfor the Juno, bank 0 calls up GM sounds. Live sets are MSB 084 and LSB 000. Make sure the Kurz sends MSB 084 and LSB 000 and it should work.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie122; MS Low Pro/Pro 3T; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; 67 Howard Combo Organ; https://dyinbreedband.wixsite.com/dyinbreedband/home

 
Posted : 23/07/2018 1:47 pm
tomas
(@tomas)
Posts: 11
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Topic starter
 

LO AND BEHOLD! At last it works!
I had to google what MSB and LSB is, and then I accidentily came over a link to Kurzweil’s Knowledge Base for the PC3A8: http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/pc3a8/setup_mode/382/ . Between the info on this page and DELAWARE DAVE’S info I figured out what to do.

For the user on this forum who is interested, I now follow this procedure:
- For every Setup I create an additional zone which only function in life is to send the program change
- On the Ch/Prog page I choose «None» as Program for that zone (the one in the slot before «1 Standard grand»). Not sure if this step is neccessary though.
-Destination for this zone is MIDI (for all other zones I choose LOCAL)
- I set the Channel to 16, because some Setups have many zones...
- On the KeyVel page I adjust the high note to be the same as the low note (that is below the lowest key). This way the Juno will not sound when I play the kurz, which is generally desired for me.
- MidiBank is set to 10752 which is the sum of (084 x 128) + 000 ...
- MidiProg is set to patch number on the Juno minus 1 (because MidiProg starts at «0»)

MANY THANKS TO DELAWARE DAVE!!

 
Posted : 24/07/2018 9:49 am
delaware dave
(@delaware-dave)
Posts: 158
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I think there is a way around the key/vel page trick where you are setting the high note below the low note so the Juno doesnt respond to the Kurz's keyboard playing. On the key-vel page of the zone in the setup there is a function called "notemap". Set it to off (turn the big dial to the left). Notemap controls whether the keybed functions for that zone. By turning it off all controllers on the Kurz will still function EXCEPT for the keybed, this function will not send PC3 keybed data to the Juno (or for that zone I should say). This way you can still play the PC3 and its internal programs will still play but the Kurz keybed will not send notes to that zone. As the Juno is connected to that zone it never receives keybed played data from the Kurz, i.e. it filters out the Kurz keybed for that zone. The Juno can only be heard by playing the Juno itself, which is what I think you want to do.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie122; MS Low Pro/Pro 3T; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; 67 Howard Combo Organ; https://dyinbreedband.wixsite.com/dyinbreedband/home

 
Posted : 24/07/2018 3:45 pm
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