Write to Jean at Kurzweilsupport. Usually he answers fast.

Apologies for the late reply.

I thought I had better update this, as I made several unsuccessful attempts to obtain support through local distribution channels all to no avail - I could not get any response from Jean @ kurzweilsupport either.. Worse still, the distribution channel had changed since my last contact, and the new channel agency on my first contact was less than helpful.

The second contact with the new distribution channel hasn't been any more successful - their response was quite clear... they had no idea and they referred my query on to a guy called harry. Who knows who harry was - point being that I was kept from being able to establish any direct form of contact, as the email address had been obscured.

If this is how Young Chang conduct their business, then I'd be inclined to look elsewhere. A simple support request which was specific and clear could not be answered by their local agents who represent them. a big healthy 0 for knowledge, and follow-up.

I'm not sure where this leaves me. The unit has not been working since 9th sept 2012, when I first contacted kurzweils agent. What's worse, is not being able to find anyone in this country with any degree of knowledge about the kurzweil product.

For something that was played 5 times in the space of it's first 2 years of ownership and was looked after like a firstborn child, I'm not so sure I'd be inclined to want to consider purchasing another, for something that should have been covered by warranty in the first place.

It's left me really annoyed. Every time I try to make contact with a representative, I get a stone wall.

Hi jb, I've sent you a PM.

and a Huge thanks for your PM's guys.

Cannot believe how helpful people on this board are. I've received more information in under 12 hours than I have from the authorized agents in the last FOUR YEARS.

Thank-you all for your help. I have contacted Jean and await a response. I hope to be able to have a brief conversation with him rather than waste his time with email tag, but let's see if I get a response first...

Thanks for the documents also. It's pretty much got me certain now of the issue. I just need the PLCC boot rom binary to reflash the chip, and then I can test the flash memory. I hope for success. Otherwise it will be a new main PCB.

Which means I'll naturally want to replace it with a PC3K8 and the K8's usb thumbdrive connector instead of the XD slot.

Hoping for successful outcome. Thankyou again all for your help and sharing your knowledge. I really appreciate it

Thanks to Mac06's assistance I was able to get a very quick response from Jean, and since last night I've had an extensive discussion on the issue.

However, his latest response is a little less promising.
I'll paste here:

First please know you have contacted 'operational support' meaning how to "use" the unit vs "fix it". Also know that we are not set up to assist with DIY repairs. All repairs are managed via the distributor within each country in question - so in this case and at this date that would indeed be Australis.

I'll be in touch.

The two issues I contacted Jean about are specifically being able to obtain the boot eprom binary, to reflash mine and secondly the best avenue for obtaining a replacement PC3K8 main pcb and daughter USB board, to install in place of the current original board.

FWIW, here are the tests I performed back in 2012, when I was able to contact the original distributor (innovative music) and they were helping me to help them diagnose the issue.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/zipzamzerpople/04546G

Thanks to the info I received from Mac06 last night -

The PC3x service manual procedure tests for failure of the flash memory indicates possible causes are multiple.

This test verifies the manufacturer ID and the size of the NAND Flash installed. The test then writes and reads back one or more blocks not occupied by the file system. This test also indicates if the NAND Flash is formatted or unformatted.
A failure of this test may indicate a problem with the with the microprocessor (U1), NAND Flash (U2), Fin CPLD (U45), or related circuitry on the Engine Board.

except: now the issue is clear that the Boot eprom (PLCC) is corrupt as the unit powers on, relay clicks and screen goes blank. I know the cause of this is the boot eprom replacement. I know that the binary on the chip is corrupted. It is likely an issue with offset when programming. However this I am not sure of 100%, hence the request for a binary.

So it is possible that not only the NAND flash is kaput, but possibly U1 (CPU). So that means a new main PCB and daughter pcb-usb flash unit (so I can get rid of the XD card)

While the initial contact with Kurzweil appeared promising (i.e. Jean was actually interested in helping to resolve the issue) it appears he's going to pass it off to someone, and it's quite possible they may not care at all. I hope this isn't the case.

It's a pretty simple request that I have. A request for a binary file, to let me continue diagnosing my units failure. A failure which occurred within a very close proximity of a warranty period, should have been covered by warranty, but unfortunately due to me being out of the country for so long a duration, was not able to occur. I have accepted this and realize that no manufacturer gives a shit about their products warranty these days anyway.

Worst case scenario is I have to purchase the main pcb. I'm not afraid of that. I've been waiting to do this for well over 2 years now... What I simply wish to do is diagnose the fault first and it seems noone can be bothered helping me to do just that.

To put it another way, if you need to change the oil in your engine, do you go get a filter and oil and change it, or do you go and buy yourself a new car every time the oil needs changing??

unless you like hemorrhaging cash, you change the oil. Same principle here. diagnose fault and repair correctly, unless cost of replacement part offers significant cost/time benefit.

Since I can reflow a logic board, it's not a problem for me to repair pcb components. Be buggered if I will let my keyboard near the distributor though... NO WAY in hell would I trust them with my electronics.

If Jean comes back with the recommendation to purchase a new board through my local distributor, I'll be looking for a US supplier. So if anyone has a recommendation on reputable suppliers please let me know. They don't have to ship international, I have a Sunnyvale CA work address that I can have it sent to.

For a keyboard that has seen less than 24 hours total of use since the date of purchase, and half of that being diagnostic testing for a fault - not playing it - then perhaps you would understand why I have a degree of cynicism towards resolution. Especially with the current agent.

bah humbug.

I've had a couple more emails back & forth between myself & Jean and he's obviously committed to assisting in resolving my issue, but as he has had to refer the issue on to other engineers, his hands are tied until he receives a response.

I'm not sure what the endgame is, but I can only remain hopeful that either I get the binary for the boot eprom, or the part numbers for the K8 main pcb, usb pcb and DIMM so I can retrofit it and at least get a working keyboard.

With the later PC3 operating systems there is a utility that reformats the flash and installs a new bootloader, prior to installing the new OS, which might be worth a try (have a look at the readme file for details).

I think there's 2 levels of boot loader on the PC3, and if it's the low level one that is corrupt it could be problematic. I may have a utility to refresh that, but will have to see if it does what I think it does, and that's if I can find it. It was a long time ago. PM me if you want to follow this up.

Regarding upgrading the PC3 to a PC3K, I think may be a difficult prospect. As I understand it the changes were quite extensive between the two machines, so short of replacing all the internal boards and getting the different hardware to fit with the case it would be tricky.

I already have the diag utils and the bootloader file transfer utility. The flash is corrupt so they will not update.
The Boot eprom (plcc on the main logic board) is faulty. I have replaced the chip, but the binary on the original was corrupt, so obviously the new one cannot be addressed.

AFAIK after some lengthy discussions with Steve from Innovative (a few years ago now, my memory is not perfect) the K8 board is nearly identical to the 3x. there are some minor differences in i/o, but all interconnect is allegedly identical.
I had also asked this question of several US based spares suppliers, who did not have K8 boards in stock but had 3x boards, and were providing me the information based on pictures. Unfortunately this source of information withered when I asked to order the K8 board in for comparison.

But this part of the discussion defeats the intention of getting the keyboard back to a useable state asap. I'm waiting on Jean's colleagues collective response (which should be definitive and absolute) regarding the replacement of parts and also the Binary for the boot eprom. It does seem quite nonsensical to not make the boot eprom binary available as part of replacement - because eproms by their very nature can suffer corruption or data loss in normal operation. Essentially what we are talking about is something very similar to a BIOS eprom in a PC motherboard. While there are utilities for those to be flashable via a usb or floppy drive, they also still fail and need to be removed for chip flashing in many cases.

The theory is similar for anyone who's mod-chipped a PS2/3 xbox/360 dreamcast etc. Many devices which are more modern run embedded systems which now allow higher programming logic to perform flash rom updating - what's now more commonly referred to as 'jailbreaking'. The differences are when using proprietary silicon, a lot of this is considered overhead, increases cost of production and provides little advantage in embedded systems which need a minimum of runtime 'interference' by a user.

Kurzweil's MARA chips on the logic board represent the embedded system, the user interface is contained in the NAND flash (containing the runtime OS) and the PLCC containing the bootstrap (bootloader program) and obviously the POST operations to ensure hardware is functioning before the bootstrap can load. When the eprom fails, the POST cannot function (meaning you cannot verify the chipsets are OK) the bootstrap fails and nothing works at all - i.e. you get a relay click from the main power supply and a blank screen, because there is nothing recognizeable on the PLCC (boot eprom) to enable the hardware or to prepare it for loading the OS from the flash.

That's getting a little OT though. As soon as Jean & the Kurzweil hardware engineers provide a response, I'll be able to make a decision. I've had to wait this long for any acceptable response to my problem so a few more days isn't going to break my will to get this issue resolved properly.

I noticed something ironic on the back of the keyboard this morning. It speaks volumes. Just 'stuck on' the back as an afterthought... Have a laugh @ my expense:

Wow!

I have to say I am pleasantly surprised by Kurzweil's response to my problem. Jean was absolutely true to his word and I received a response from Hal Chamberlin about my issue.

As expected, it was 100% technically accurate and proved to me that my intuition about what was at fault was correct, and that I should not doubt myself so much.

Being the person that I am however, meant that QC process ensures that each step of testing is verified with a result and a go-no go result dictates the next step in testing procedure.

And that brings us to the conclusion. A sad, deflating, demoralizing result - logic board failure.

Now, I can faithfully say that there are a number of possible FA / RCA descriptors that could be used, but for the moment we'll just say it in laymans terms. It's rooted. Stuffed. Buggered. kaput. dead. or perhaps Zombie, because it powers on and does nothing.

I was able to perform the necessary testing and reflashing satisfactorily. A Number of secondary options were also attempted, just in case, however the result was repeatable and conclusive.

So now, we move on to the bit where I wasn't really wanting to go, but had already accepted some time ago as being the most likely outcome.....

New Logic board.

Watch this space. I am still in discussion with Kurzweil with regards to my requirements and despite what has been a long and somewhat painful process, I have confidence in a satisfactory outcome.

But what a turnaround! From an almost non-existent response through our local channel to an exceeds expectations result from the guys in the USA.

I have to say I am bothered by our local channel, especially when I have received such excellent dedicated support from Jean & Hal un the USA.

So while the test results turned out unforgiving and disappointing, I do feel that the support I received from Jean and Hal to assist me in resolving the issue has been key in my desire to persevere.

I hope to have this completely resolved to conclusion soon - it seems that is is only a matter of parts & time now. As soon as this is sorted, I will be a happy camper.

Updates will come as more information comes to hand.

For those following on the other thread, you'll already know abotu the latest acquisition, but for those who don't and for the sake of posterity it's now PC3K8 in OZ and the PC3x has been put into the flight case, until I resurrect it.

Everything is peachy right now. New keyboards have a habit of making the world rose-coloured.